With the recent media attention drawn to the herbal industry surrounding the Ephedra concerns, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration has announced their intention to crack down on the manufacturing process in an effort to improve consumer health and safety.
However, a very significant cause for concern dealing with the ingredients of "natural supplements" is being ignored. It's a concern I raise to all of my clients. Would you feel "safe" about your bottle of herbs if you knew that it may contain trace amounts of nail polish remover or other industrial solvents?
These solvents are used to extract the desired constituents from the plant matter. Two very common solvents are water (teas and tissanes) and alcohol (tinctures and extracts). Water doesn't have very good preservative properties, so you won't find many off-the-shelf products extracted with water. Alcohol is often called "the universal solvent", and acts as a very good preservative. Sometimes, glycerin is used to "displace" the alcohol in children's remedies or for those clients wishing alcohol-free products.
But alcohol is expensive, and it is pretty slow-acting. Large corporations or manufacturers of herbal products need to cut expenses and get products on the shelf faster. Hence the introduction of nail polish remover and other chemical solvents. In theory, the solvent is evaporated from the compound before packaging. They swear it's safe, citing the extremely low levels of chemical residue.
I, however, do not want even trace amounts of nail polish remover in my herbs.
This is not the only option. Many reputable companies, such as Gaia, New Chapter, Herbs, etc., and Herb Pharm use super critical carbon dioxide and other various non-toxic compounds in their manufacturing process. It's more expensive and time consuming, and you probably won't find these on the shelf of your local Costco. You will, however, get a better product in the end... and no surprises.
Yes, I think we should crack down on the manufacturing process of herbs. Let's get these solvents out of the process. In turn, we'll get rid of the companies more interested in wealth accumulation than health accumulation.
By nail-polish remover do you mean acetone or 'acetone-free npr', ethyl acetate? While acetone is solely a product of petrochemical industry, ethyl acetate is an ester that is present in trace amounts in many natural foods and in fermentation products.
I wouldn't realy want to take in 'large' amounts of either though.
Posted by: Chris on April 14, 2003 06:05 PMI'm talking about acetone, the very one created by petrochemical firms and used as a solvent in way too many places.
Unfamiliar with ethyl acetate. Perhaps a chemist could explain the difference between the two? Seems the latter is a natural by-product, but I don't want to infer anything...
Do you know a good chemist? (Wink, wink, nudge, nudge...)
Posted by: Evo on April 14, 2003 09:45 PMDear Sir
Is their any carsinogenic compound in any nail polish or enamel.
do you help out to send the contain in nail polish.
Pls. reply on given mail ID. jillent@siy.com
Posted by: Rahul Salvi on August 16, 2003 01:18 AMRahul,
That depends on who you ask. A quick Google search on "acetone toxicity" points to hundreds of US government websites that claim little or no toxicity.
However...
Using nail polish remover externally and drinking acetone as a solvent in your Kava are two completely different things. I don't want to have to have my liver process unnatural chemicals and run the risk. So I chose good quality extracts that do not use acetone as a solvent.
Namaste,
Evo
Posted by: Evo on August 18, 2003 05:54 PMWhat a bunch of nonsense.
Water is a highly polar solvent, which is why organic solvents are also used in extractions. 'Alcohol', i.e. ethanol, is rather expensive to obtain 'dry' (i.e. with no water content), which is why solvents like methanol and acetone are often used in preference. Don't wet your pants that it also disolves nail polish well. Ethanol and carbon dioxide are both toxic, you know!
Posted by: BrokenBeast on January 9, 2004 09:07 AMI'll repeat and slightly rephrase: I do not want methnaol nor acetone in my herbal products, food, nor drink. There is simply no need for it at all (for the reasons you pointed out).
If you, BB, prefer to have these compounds in your food, drink or medicines... enjoy. But don't call it nonsense when other disagree. It's bad form.
Posted by: evo on January 9, 2004 05:04 PMSorry, I don't mean to call your worries about residues from these solvents nonsense, just the irrational fear that acetone (propanone) = nail polish remover (most of which, nowadays, ironically do not contain propanone).
I find it interesting that the extraction can be done with super-critical CO2, but an ethanol extraction would require drying which would be done with even nastier chemicals like calcium chloride or mercury salts, potential residues of which I'd much less rather ingest!
Posted by: BrokenBeast on January 12, 2004 03:59 AM"...an ethanol extraction would require drying which would be done with even nastier chemicals..."
I use ETOH as my extraction agent in most of my preps, being a bit too small of shop to afford super-critical C02 extraction processes. Never once have I had to add any chemicals other than organic grape alcohol and spring H2O. Come to think of it, I've never had to "dry" any of my preps once they have been extracted.
In the cases that wet ethanol is an efficient solvent for a given extraction, I'm sure it would be used - it's surely the cheapest (bar water). It often isn't, though, and to make it efficient requires the removal of its usual water content.
What's more, when you need to separate fractions using a polar and a non-polar solvent, ethanol's hardly useful... If this isn't carried out in some extractions the risk is much higher from unwanted ingredients than from the solvent used!
Posted by: BrokenBeast on January 14, 2004 05:08 AMhow is nail polish remover used as a drug? and how does it harm you?
Posted by: bunny on January 14, 2004 01:30 PMI've never had to "remove water content" from my alcohol. The constiuents of some herbs (like Milk Thistle) require an extremely high (80%) alcohol content for extraction. Other plants contain compounds which are nearly insoluble in alcohol and make better infusions. Most have both H20 and ETOH soluble compunds, requiring a specific ratio of ETOH to water.
If I need straight (195 proof) alcohol, say a fresh extraction where the plant brings it's own water, I use 195 proof organic grape alcohol. Others use "everclear", but no one, I repeat, _no one_ I know "removes" the H20 content of say Vodka. Also, note that it is rare for an herbal extraction to require pure ETOH. H20 is not only OK, it's often needed to get the full compliment of constiutents in your menstruum.
As to polar and non-polar solvents... I'm not a chemist. I'm an herbalist. Doubtful that 10,000 years of plant based medicine use has taught us much about the polarity of solvents. Or if it has, I've yet to run across it.
Oh and bunny, you're missing the point all together. I'm not suggesting anyone use nail polish or acetone as a drug. If they do, I'm unaware of it and don't have much more to say on the subject. Plenty of other substances I also don't really want in my body while we're on the subject.
Posted by: Evo Terra on January 14, 2004 07:05 PM"The constiuents of some herbs (like Milk Thistle) require an extremely high (80%) alcohol content for extraction"
"Removing the water content of vodka" is *exactly* what has been done to make your 'overproof spirit'! Vodka just means the distilled ethanol from a fermented organic source (usually grain, refined sugar or one form or another or potatos... but grapes count too - that's only brandy if you're trying to retain the flavour, too, which is not really feasible at these high overproofed levels) and it is overproofed by carrying out further distillations... which (altogether now) *remove further water*!
The simple fact of the matter is that 95%abv is at the top of the scale for removing water that can be attained by distillation (outside a vacuum), which is why salts like calcium chloride are used to push this further.
As regards the use of polar and non-polar solvents in cleaning an extract, if you want to make little capsules full of everything you pull out of a plant with an inappropriate solvent and no cleaning, be my guest... but don't try to tell me what years of plant-based medicine has taught us! The bottom line is that where synthesis doesn't take over (usually because the substance in question is both effective, legal and patentable... or at least an analogue is) a two-stage process is the norm: first you use one solvent to make a crude extraction then (perhaps then with a change being made to the extract to change its solubility... for example 'freebasing', i.e. changing the pH conditions so that the substance stops acting as an inorganic salt and starts acting like an organic), then another solvent is used to separate the extract from the other material not desired. (Using an organic solvent you pick up lots of waxes etc., with water you pick up heaps of chlorophyll, neither being desired... with wet alcohol you have the 'worst of both worlds' and pick up the whole lot!)
I believe I've found the difference in our two approaches, and while we'll never convince the other of the error of their ways.
I do not look at waxes nor "heaps of clorophyll" as undesireable materials to be discarded in the manufacturing process. I firmly believe you cannot isolate a specific constiuent or synthesize it's analog and say "that's it. This is what makes this plant work." Such is for pharmaceutical chemists.
I'm a simpler and I use herbal therapy to help my clients, as well as myself. My solvents are simple (H20, ETOH and occasionally glycerine) and my "cleaning" consists of a gentle washing of the plant before the preparation begins. My process is but a single stage. Marc, meet menstruum. Menstruum, meet marc. 14 days (or so) later, strain and bottle.
You prefer patented isolates and analogs. I do not. You prefer your substances "pure" and free from the mess of compounds created by the plant. I'll take it the way the plant presents it.
Bottom line is this, BB: we'll never agree. I'm OK to try and make it through the rest of my life with this knowledge. It's been an interesting debate with you.
Posted by: Evo Terra on January 16, 2004 02:13 PMI think the FDA misses the boat on a regular basis!
You might find this interesting concerning Ephedra:
http://www.health-fx.net/articleshell.php?id=28